A few days ago there was a thread here discussing how to make use of digital
NACO approach plates on a PDA. The context was that a pilot could download
and print fresh current charts for the primary airport(s) and alternate(s),
and have charts for other airports available on a PDA for use in the event
of diversion to an unplanned airport.

I put a couple of SIAP charts in the iPAQ 4700 and viewed them with Adobe
Acrobat Reader for Pocket PC. It was not ideal but appeared to be usable
with the zoom and pan capabilities of the reader.

Next I bought the Sporty's DVD with the full set of plates and software to
access them. It is good for a desktop but cannot be used on a PDA. The
chart files can be downloaded into the PDA and viewed by Acrobat Reader, but
it is not practical because the file names are cryptic and there is no
software to access the files in a meaningful manner.

Ron Rosenfeld brought up a product from Seattle Avionics called Smart
Plates. I looked into this, and the purpose of this post is to make a PIREP
on what I found out.

I talked with Robert Hamilton (425-455-2209, ).
He said the desktop version of Smart Plates is available at an introductory
price of $99. The Pocket PC version was planned to be available a couple of
months ago but didn't make schedule, it is expected to be out in January.
The desktop version and Pocket PC version will be bundled at a price of
$149, as I understood it. He says that those customers who own the desktop
version when the Pocket PC version becomes available will get the latter
free. (Verify all this with Robert, this is what my notes show.)

Here is how I understand that it will work. You use the desktop software to
build "Plate Packs", which can consist of one chart or the full set of NACO
TPPs. Then you download them to the PDA where they can be accessed by their
software for the Pocket PC. Their viewer has zoom and pan capabilities.

Assuming that you want the full set of charts, you have to initially
download the full set or buy a CD from them for $20. Anytime you want to
update the charts, the desktop software will check them for currency and
download just the changes. Then you download to the Pocket PC and only the
changes are sent over.

You have the choice of downloading from NACO or to download the downsized
charts (about 5X) from Seatlle Avionics. In neither case are there any
additional fees or subscriptions necessary. The software is a one-time
purchase and charts are free after that. (Software upgrades may incur a
fee.)

It looks to me like they have pretty well hit the target with their product,
if it turns out to be easy to use. At least, it covers everything I have
been looking for.

Usual disclaimers apply.

Stan

I forgot one thing. Robert estimates that about 500MB of storage will
suffice for a full set of their smallerized files. I bought a 1 GB card for
$60 on sale.

Stan


"Stan Prevost" > wrote in message
...
> A few days ago there was a thread here discussing how to make use of
digital
> NACO approach plates on a PDA. The context was that a pilot could
download
> and print fresh current charts for the primary airport(s) and
alternate(s),
> and have charts for other airports available on a PDA for use in the event
> of diversion to an unplanned airport.
>
> I put a couple of SIAP charts in the iPAQ 4700 and viewed them with Adobe
> Acrobat Reader for Pocket PC. It was not ideal but appeared to be usable
> with the zoom and pan capabilities of the reader.
>
> Next I bought the Sporty's DVD with the full set of plates and software to
> access them. It is good for a desktop but cannot be used on a PDA. The
> chart files can be downloaded into the PDA and viewed by Acrobat Reader,
but
> it is not practical because the file names are cryptic and there is no
> software to access the files in a meaningful manner.
>
> Ron Rosenfeld brought up a product from Seattle Avionics called Smart
> Plates. I looked into this, and the purpose of this post is to make a
PIREP
> on what I found out.
>
> I talked with Robert Hamilton (425-455-2209, ).
> He said the desktop version of Smart Plates is available at an
introductory
> price of $99. The Pocket PC version was planned to be available a couple
of
> months ago but didn't make schedule, it is expected to be out in January.
> The desktop version and Pocket PC version will be bundled at a price of
> $149, as I understood it. He says that those customers who own the
desktop
> version when the Pocket PC version becomes available will get the latter
> free. (Verify all this with Robert, this is what my notes show.)
>
> Here is how I understand that it will work. You use the desktop software
to
> build "Plate Packs", which can consist of one chart or the full set of
NACO
> TPPs. Then you download them to the PDA where they can be accessed by
their
> software for the Pocket PC. Their viewer has zoom and pan capabilities.
>
> Assuming that you want the full set of charts, you have to initially
> download the full set or buy a CD from them for $20. Anytime you want to
> update the charts, the desktop software will check them for currency and
> download just the changes. Then you download to the Pocket PC and only
the
> changes are sent over.
>
> You have the choice of downloading from NACO or to download the downsized
> charts (about 5X) from Seatlle Avionics. In neither case are there any
> additional fees or subscriptions necessary. The software is a one-time
> purchase and charts are free after that. (Software upgrades may incur a
> fee.)
>
> It looks to me like they have pretty well hit the target with their
product,
> if it turns out to be easy to use. At least, it covers everything I have
> been looking for.
>
> Usual disclaimers apply.
>
> Stan
>
>

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Is the screen size and resolution on a PDA enough to view an approach
> plate?
>
> The problem is that one needs to be able to see the whole plate, I
> think, not just one bit of it.
>

Peter, that was part of the earlier discussions.

For normal use, you need a tablet PC or something like that so that you can
have a full-chart presentation that is very readable. This discussion was
about use as a backup only so that you can have current charts for an
unplanned destination without carrying around and updating a large set of
charts. For that usage, you can tolerate some inconvenience as long as
safety is not compromised.

I determined for myself, by experiment, that the PDA display is adequate for
the intended usage. I am able to brief the approach by panning and
scrolling, make some notes of frequencies, minima and such on my kneeboard,
and then position the view so that the plan view and profile view are on the
screen. The readability is good enough for that, and the info outside that
view I extract during the approach briefing. It is not like looking through
a soda straw as you might expect, and as I thought it might be. My
experiment was at my desk, and I intend to repeat it in the air before fully
commiting to this approach.

Regards,
Stan

FWIW I have the current version of SmartPlates and have been using it (for a
month or so) to print copies of plates. It is a pretty well done application,
although I am not sure my old eyes will be able to deal with the plates on a
pocket PC. One Very Nice Thing about it is it will print the plates two-up on a
single sheet of paper. Fold the paper in half, punch it if you like, and you
are good to go on your kneeboard or yoke board.

My current plan is to carry the NACO books but to print out plates for intended
destination, alternates, etc. As my NACO subscriptions expire I intend to
investigate the Air Chart system for the NACO books as it is cheaper and
probably sufficient when I am basically looking for a backup.


On 12/14/04 10:37 PM, Stan Prevost wrote the following:
> A few days ago there was a thread here discussing how to make use of digital
> NACO approach plates on a PDA. The context was that a pilot could download
> and print fresh current charts for the primary airport(s) and alternate(s),
> and have charts for other airports available on a PDA for use in the event
> of diversion to an unplanned airport.
>
> I put a couple of SIAP charts in the iPAQ 4700 and viewed them with Adobe
> Acrobat Reader for Pocket PC. It was not ideal but appeared to be usable
> with the zoom and pan capabilities of the reader.
>
> Next I bought the Sporty's DVD with the full set of plates and software to
> access them. It is good for a desktop but cannot be used on a PDA. The
> chart files can be downloaded into the PDA and viewed by Acrobat Reader, but
> it is not practical because the file names are cryptic and there is no
> software to access the files in a meaningful manner.
>
> Ron Rosenfeld brought up a product from Seattle Avionics called Smart
> Plates. I looked into this, and the purpose of this post is to make a PIREP
> on what I found out.
>
> I talked with Robert Hamilton (425-455-2209, ).
> He said the desktop version of Smart Plates is available at an introductory
> price of $99. The Pocket PC version was planned to be available a couple of
> months ago but didn't make schedule, it is expected to be out in January.
> The desktop version and Pocket PC version will be bundled at a price of
> $149, as I understood it. He says that those customers who own the desktop
> version when the Pocket PC version becomes available will get the latter
> free. (Verify all this with Robert, this is what my notes show.)
>
> Here is how I understand that it will work. You use the desktop software to
> build "Plate Packs", which can consist of one chart or the full set of NACO
> TPPs. Then you download them to the PDA where they can be accessed by their
> software for the Pocket PC. Their viewer has zoom and pan capabilities.
>
> Assuming that you want the full set of charts, you have to initially
> download the full set or buy a CD from them for $20. Anytime you want to
> update the charts, the desktop software will check them for currency and
> download just the changes. Then you download to the Pocket PC and only the
> changes are sent over.
>
> You have the choice of downloading from NACO or to download the downsized
> charts (about 5X) from Seatlle Avionics. In neither case are there any
> additional fees or subscriptions necessary. The software is a one-time
> purchase and charts are free after that. (Software upgrades may incur a
> fee.)
>
> It looks to me like they have pretty well hit the target with their product,
> if it turns out to be easy to use. At least, it covers everything I have
> been looking for.
>
> Usual disclaimers apply.
>
> Stan
>
>

"Mitty" > wrote in message
...
> My current plan is to carry the NACO books but to print out plates for
intended
> destination, alternates, etc. As my NACO subscriptions expire I intend to
> investigate the Air Chart system for the NACO books as it is cheaper and
> probably sufficient when I am basically looking for a backup.
>
>

That's what I currently do! :-) My partner and I each buy the full US set
each year. I have only made a couple of diversions to airports that I
wasn't very familiar with, both due to engine trouble, and in neither case
did I have time to pull out the AirCharts updates publication and pick
through the cryptic information to see if there are any updates to be
applied to the charts. There is barely time to find the charts for the
unplanned airport, even with my wife assisting from the right seat. I want
a system that is lower cost, always current, and faster to access. The
SmartPlates product meets the first two criteria, I intend to evaluate the
product to see how it does relative to the third.

Stan

Stan Prevost wrote:
>
> Peter wrote:
> >
> > Is the screen size and resolution on a PDA enough to view an approach
> > plate?
> >
> > The problem is that one needs to be able to see the whole plate, I
> > think, not just one bit of it.
> >
>
> Peter, that was part of the earlier discussions.
>
> For normal use, you need a tablet PC or something like that so that you
can
> have a full-chart presentation that is very readable. This discussion was
> about use as a backup only so that you can have current charts for an
> unplanned destination without carrying around and updating a large set of
> charts. For that usage, you can tolerate some inconvenience as long as
> safety is not compromised.

How can safety not be compromised when you have to pan and scroll on the
approach? I develop aviation software for the Pocket PC (W&B, FARs, route
planning etc), and a significant amount of development time goes into
usability. I considered adding approach charts and decided that flying an
approach in the clouds using a PDA increased the risk level to a point to
which I was not comfortable. Did I miss out on some revenue? Sure.
However, I am a firm believer in safety, and I cannot believe that flying an
approach using a PDA does not compromise safety.

That's just my opinion.


> I determined for myself, by experiment, that the PDA display is adequate
for
> the intended usage. I am able to brief the approach by panning and
> scrolling, make some notes of frequencies, minima and such on my
kneeboard,
> and then position the view so that the plan view and profile view are on
the
> screen. The readability is good enough for that, and the info outside
that
> view I extract during the approach briefing. It is not like looking
through
> a soda straw as you might expect, and as I thought it might be. My
> experiment was at my desk, and I intend to repeat it in the air before
fully
> commiting to this approach.

Hilton

Hilton wrote:

> How can safety not be compromised when you have to pan and scroll on the
> approach? I develop aviation software for the Pocket PC (W&B, FARs, route
> planning etc), and a significant amount of development time goes into
> usability. I considered adding approach charts and decided that flying an
> approach in the clouds using a PDA increased the risk level to a point to
> which I was not comfortable. Did I miss out on some revenue? Sure.
> However, I am a firm believer in safety, and I cannot believe that flying an
> approach using a PDA does not compromise safety.
>
> That's just my opinion.

No doubt that you are right. Safety is compromised by going to electronic
charts without being able to view the entire approach chart. That's why the
high-end stuff has robust portrait-oriented displays. Then again, the high-end
stuff has two engines, single-engine safety from lift-off, real deicing
capability, etc.

"Hilton" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> How can safety not be compromised when you have to pan and scroll on the
> approach? I develop aviation software for the Pocket PC (W&B, FARs, route
> planning etc), and a significant amount of development time goes into
> usability. I considered adding approach charts and decided that flying an
> approach in the clouds using a PDA increased the risk level to a point to
> which I was not comfortable. Did I miss out on some revenue? Sure.
> However, I am a firm believer in safety, and I cannot believe that flying
an
> approach using a PDA does not compromise safety.
>

The key point that makes it acceptable to me are that I can view a readable
screen with the full plan view and profile view of the procedure, which also
contains the missed approach procedure. No manipulation is required during
the approach. I have to pan and scroll only during the approach briefing to
extract information (frequencies, minima, TDZE, etc.) from the portions of
the chart that are outside that window.

That is no more a distraction and compromise of safety than digging around
in the flight bag for the approach plates that were not planned for use,
finding the right one, etc. Plus I will always have current charts. Again,
the context of this discussion has been having current, readily accessible,
TPP information available for use when diverting to unplanned airports,
without having to own, maintain, and carry a bunch of printed charts. I
plan to download and print current charts for the primary and alternate
airports for each trip.

It is an individual judgement. I made my initial judgement by actually
holding the pda in my hands, accessing the software, experimenting with it
to determine the readablility under the required zoom factor, and how it
worked procedurally for an approach briefing. With the software I used for
the experiment, I found it acceptable. My evaluation was made against my
background of in-flight use of the PDA, having used the AnyWhereMap product
for two or three years. The PDA is yoke mounted, so the viewing distance is
not large, and it is well-positioned in my scan.

As I said in earlier posts, the final evaluation will be made with the final
software, in flight. I plan to go through the whole process: accessing the
desired procedure, briefing the approach, and flying the approach. It
remains to be seen how the pan/scroll/zoom features of the SmartPlates for
PocketPC product work out, relative to those of the Adobe Reader for
PocketPC that I used for the preliminary evaluation.

Stan

I'm a US pilot and I have flown in Canada and never have gotten them,
but I'll have to admit, I've never really tried. Is it possible to get
radar services (aka flight following) for VFR flight in Canada?

> I'm a US pilot and I have flown in Canada and never have gotten
> them, but I'll have to admit, I've never really tried. Is it
> possible to get radar services (aka flight following) for VFR flight
> in Canada?

Certainly, it works the same was as in the States. If you crossed the
border VFR, you would've had to use flight following to get the
required discrete transponder code.

- FChE

In a previous article, said:
>I'm a US pilot and I have flown in Canada and never have gotten them,
>but I'll have to admit, I've never really tried. Is it possible to get
>radar services (aka flight following) for VFR flight in Canada?
>

When I used to fly up to Ottawa VFR, going up I'd file a flight plan and
automatically get flight following. But for the flight home, I'd file but
they wouldn't offer me flight following. Usually I'd wait until it was
time to contact Wheeler Sack and ask them for flight following. Somebody
on this newsgroup suggested that I file a CVFR flight plan if I want
flight following, but I never got a chance to try because I got my
instrument rating and now I file IFR whenever I across the border.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Cause geeks like us, baby we can hack the Sun" - Joe Thompson